Jan Jekielek, Senior Editor at The Epoch Times and host of American Thought Leaders, joins the program to discuss his latest book and investigative research into state-linked organ trafficking originating out of China. Drawing from years of reporting, survivor testimony, and on-the-ground investigation, Jekielek documents evidence of industrial-scale organ harvesting and examines how centralized, unaccountable power structures make such practices possible. We also explore the broader backdrop often left out of the conversation: the global longevity race. As elite institutions and state-backed initiatives pursue life extension and ambitions of dramatically increasing human lifespan, we examine how the drive to push biological limits can intersect with ethical collapse when power is centralized and human beings become utilitarian assets. At the center of this discussion is what Jekielek calls the science of evil — how systemic harm emerges not from caricature villains, but through ideology, incentives, bureaucratic normalization, and personality profiles that thrive within highly centralized systems. What conditions allow ordinary actors to participate in extraordinary harm? We expand the lens beyond China. From the Epstein blackmail operation to Canada’s expanding MAID program, we discuss why no society is immune when accountability erodes and incentives override human dignity.You can purchase Jan’s new book, Killed to Order, at https://www.amazon.com/Killed-Order-Harvesting-Industry-Adversary/dp/1510786503See exclusives and more at https://SarahWestall.Substack.com